Americans may greatly underestimate the impact of Putin’s 10-year propaganda –

According to Pozdorovkin, the current approach of the Russian state media is anything but an attempt to deny dissatisfaction with the occupation of Ukraine, a continuation of a decades-long campaign to distort the views of Russian citizens in the West. He has long argued that the people of the country are ready for this moment, drastically reducing the chances of any tech company or foreign department hoping to break the curtain.

The Washington Post spoke to Pozdorovkin on the phone from his current home in Brooklyn. The speech has been edited for brevity and clarity.

Q: You have been so outspoken in your work that all media have circulated in the Russian media about America in a way that most Americans do not know. What exactly was going on?

A: I don’t think Americans fully understand what the Russians have said about the United States and the West over the past decade. It was an information war – a completely one-sided information war – and it turned out to be so thorough and ingenious that much of what happened now was preemptively possible. This information warfare goes like this: “The West is completely against us and is trying to suppress and destroy our way of life.” This is a simple message. But people say this many times, in many different ways.

A: Western sanctions still due to the Donbas war in 2014? Attempt to destroy the Russian way of life. The response of the Russian disinformation campaign to the 2016 US elections? Attempt to destroy the Russian way of life. Punishment for Russian doping at the Olympics? Same thing. You name it, if you had relations with Russia and the West, it was the West that tried to destroy the Russian way of life. In fact, of course, most Americans don’t usually spend a lot of time thinking about Russia.

Q: And Trump fits well –

A: Trump fits this very well because Trump was an American leader he did not have He is trying to destroy the Russian way of life.

Q: And in their eyes, this is what caused the US reaction.

A: That was the one and only reason.

Q: What effect does this have? As you say, it’s not something the US or Europe are doing too much to preserve this narrative.

A: It is true that the Russian media has been blacked out for years; Nobody fought. But it really doesn’t matter. If you fully embrace this message of selflessness, what does it do when it is one of a kind? [President Vladimir] Putin’s aggressive actions are not perceived as offensive by many people in Russia, as they are now, they are simply perceived as a defense of their own way of life. Therefore, the nuclear threat is calculated.

Q: Because it doesn’t count as “look what you made me do”.

A: Decidedly. “We don’t want to take the nuclear option. But what choice do we have? You tried to destroy our way of life. “

Q: How widely is your research used in Russian society? Many Americans have the perhaps naïve feeling that there is generational friction here. Older viewers who remember the Cold War and watch public television more might think so. But the younger generation, who don’t remember it and know technically, no. Technology and until recently the open internet should have played a role here, right?

A: I think it depends on what the people at the volunteer agency have. For some young Russians, yes. But getting this information is becoming more and more difficult. You have to act. there [independent online news service] Medusa, Bellingcat, and others based overseas leaked information about the war. But you have to know where to look; You cannot access any of the old sites. You need to know how to run a VPN that not many people have. Or they are afraid. People were just connecting [liberal radio station] Echo of Moscow o [independent TV station] television rain. They have now been closed or previously closed due to a new censorship law.

Q: But isn’t that a sign that information warfare isn’t working? If you are such a good propagandist, you shouldn’t shut down independent media: your propaganda should oppose it, right?

A: I guess it just closes all the holes in the boat. The propaganda worked. But for those who don’t, it makes independent reporting much more difficult.

Q: Where are the tech companies in this? From many platforms Facebook he is chirping, To separate. But YouTube is enabled, for example. Can independent media do this? For example, the Alexei Navalny channel is now operational Leonid Volkov. Or other dissidents.

A: YouTube is problematic for Putin because it works both ways; [Russian censorship agency] Roskomnadzor simply could not be closed. Because you have the Sea Channel, but you also have very popular Russian propagandists that the government wants to spend to reach out to young people. And of course they can’t just remove one channel; As soon as they allow it, they must allow everything. Now they have decided to do it.

Q: Therefore, the idea of ​​creating a complete media shutdown is not that simple.

A: Agree that this information is a losing game to hit a mole. Deactivating an information field causes it to appear elsewhere. But it complicates things every time. Russia will never be North Korea. But get closer to it.

Q: If people don’t have bread to eat or their grandchildren aren’t coming home from a fight, does the news desert fill approach work? That would block anything NATO might try, wouldn’t it?

A: I believe 90 percent of people in Russia who think they are victims are just defending their broad ideological coordinates. They don’t change their fixed thoughts just because life is more difficult. They don’t connect the two.

Q: Or blame the West.

A: Yes, that’s what Putin did in his comments that “sanctions are an act of war”. He links the plight of the people to the broader narrative of the occupation, which in itself is a broader narrative of sacrifice and destruction of Russian life.

Q: Therefore, the idea that harsh economic sanctions push ordinary Russians to end the war may be wrong.

A: decidedly. What many people may want in a difficult time is the opposite: they want to show power against the West. Putin and the state media are all ready to serve them.

Q: So how do they do this? Russian state media – night shows in Vesti – full of bombed Ukrainian buildings?

A: No, not really. They show an attack on military bases; Thus they express their power. When you see Ukrainian civilians, Russian soldiers help the elderly if they can somehow manage such images. It shows how they helped the Ukrainians against the great threat from the West.

Q: This is part of the “unification” narrative.

A: Very compatible with it. Unite the people and free them from the weapons of the “Nazi” government of the West. And this can happen when you see bombed buildings.

Q: Why did the Ukrainians bomb their homes?

Q: NATO is not attacking Ukraine.

Source: Washington Post

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